A non-target's failure

I'd actually say it's as easy as ever for non-targets to break in, but keep making excuses bro. You're not lying to anyone here but yourself

Industry is run by mostly generational wealth: wealthy upbringing -> to semi/target school with top price -> family friends for internships -> on campus events and referrals = offer.

Not saying this is all, but unfortunately the industry is flooded from privileged kids from elite high schools and Greenwich residents.

neeeedhelp

I can't see a good future and I have considered killing myself.

Whoa, calm down. It's never that serious. I'd recommend all the people leaving these hard-ass tough love comments to tone it down a bit. You never know who is sitting behind the computer and how serious they are after a post like this. If this is your mental state, then get some therapy and seriously find someone to talk to.

With that said, if you taught yourself everything you say, your time wasn't wasted. You can pivot and utilize that knowledge in some other way. You can also get an MBA in a couple of years and try to break into banking as an Associate if it means that much to you. It's not the end of the world or your life just because you didn't get into banking straight out of undergrad.

It's all about your mindset. Went to a non-target, with literally 1 alumni in IB . I never doubted myself and just took on solid experiences. Beginning of college started out at a small RE shop and now in IB . The problem is most people aren't strategic with their approach to recruiting. You don't need to apply everywhere and you don't need to cold email the entire division. It's eat or be eaten out here, we all can't make it.

The good thing aiming for IB / ER /S&T from a non-target, if you actually grind, is that even if we fail it still makes us competitive enough for great starting roles like valuations/TAS, commercial banking, and MO risk type roles. You won't make 150k out of undergrad but it's still a lot better than starting off in audit or something. Then after a year, lateralling is a very real possibility or you can do an MBA .

You clearly didn't prepare for the very real possibility of not breaking in and should've casted a much wider net. There's even targets who do everything right and still fail and have to end up taking Big 4 M&A or something.

3000 emails and a few years later, it must have struck you to transfer to at least a marginally better school where banks have some sort of on campus recruiting presence. Given the level of effort you expended, I am assuming you have a 4.0 GPA at your non-target.

It's really not that complicated, the likelihood of getting a front office offer out of school is pretty binary, 0 or 1. Success is pretty much a function of being in front of decision makers in a formal and structured recruiting process.

Long shot 1% success stories aside, if you're not in front of those people, you're probably not going to get a job.

What do you classify as "making it?" Is it specifically working at a top BB bank ? Or just getting into IB at all? If all you're trying for is top BB , then yes its extremely difficult to get in, and if you keep getting rejected, I'm not sure why you keep pursuing that. It seems like you have to change your mindset. If you go more downstream to a MM bank, don't you still think that's "making it?" Comparing yourself to >90%, you're still going to make more right out of college, have a great knowledge base, and offered the chance to establish a good work ethic with exit opportunities. I feel like that's making it to me...

Just pivot into tech lol

Network your ass off with firms that have mostly non-target analyst classes. See Quadriga Partners in Denver. They are actively hiring as we speak. Message Analysts on LinkedIn and try to make a connection with them. Dont focus on listing off your modeling capabilities, but learn about the firm beforehand and express interest on your call. Best of luck to you.

I was one of the many non-targets from a no-name school who made it.

If you have no IBD experience and aren't targeting firms that are <50 IBD employees, you're doing it wrong

If you sent 3000 emails and didn't get a single offer, you are getting rejected for fit or attitude issues.

Sounds like you're great on paper, a bit hardo (whose application is THAT detailed?) and getting dinged in coffee chats or interviews. Yeah, targets have it easier, but that's the way of the world. There was zero pathway for non-targets 20 years ago and it gets easier every year with more and more non-target alums on the street.

I have kept track of a handful of impressive non-target kids who've reached out, even if they weren't a fit for my bank. Every single one of them got an offer somewhere. If you grind, start early, and have the right GPA (those 3 things do eliminate a lot of non-targets, to be fair) the pathway is 1000% clear.

IMO I would get someone to give you an honest behavioral interview / feedback - not a friend, but some upperclassman or pay for 30 minutes of a WSO mentor's time.

I go to a target but have many friends at complete non targets because my entire high school went to non targets. Yes IB May be hard to get from a non target, but why did you never consider casting a wider net? All my friends at non targets got great roles (many making more than me with way better WLB) in tech, SWE, consulting, asset management, S&T, corporate banking and 2 of my non target friends got into top grad schools. IB is not the end all be all - it literally represents like 1% of finance jobs or less.Even at my top target, many people strike out on IB / MBB / PE . However, unlike you, they casted a wider net and ended up with other, still good, roles. My advice to you is to delay graduation, reapply, and cast a wider net. There are tons of great roles out there that non target students are obtaining besides the IB / MBB / PE (which probably represent less than 1% of finance/business roles), and I have complete faith that you can as well.

I was in a similar position to you-couldn't land a role while in college and took the long route by entering a tangential field and building a story that said "I'm committed to entering banking, I understand and am capable of the workload required, and I've built qualities relevant to banking through my non-banking role."

Temper your expectations. Focus on MM's and Boutiques because they typically weigh cultural fit more heavily. Most importantly, accept that it may take time, potentially multiple years, and don't sacrifice growing your skillset and career in the meantime.

While I was trying to break into banking, I worked in some very cool finance but non-banking roles where higher-than-average effort and commitment allowed me to gain a wide scope, work directly with senior executives, and learn valuable tools. Career progression will be helpful if you end up having to obtain an MBA to transition to banking.

Non target myself that made it, your attitude needs to be fixed. Number two stop bitching and keep grinding fix your mentality you will fail over and over again but if you don't give up things eventually works out

this is hilarious. why do people buy in to the WSO dogma that you need to have X, Y, and Z to "make it" (formatting PPTs etc)?

I didnt have anything lined up. about 50% of the PMs and analysts I know didnt have anything lined up.

I was in the same shoes, honestly what fixed it for me was a crappy internship at a 3 man boutique IB . Once I threw that " summer analyst " on my resume / LinkedIn I got so much more traction. I literally got it by calling their front desk and asking if they need an intern and that I would work for free. Sometimes the conventional method of outreach and networking just doesn't work.

After that internship it was pretty easy to convert to MM for FT . Another route is a MSF degree at Vandy. Buddy of mine did that after coming from an absolute non-target. Basically gives you an extra year to recruit with a target name on your resume. IMO better than going big4 and working your way up as you only lose 1 year and some earnings + cost but then you are in IB .

There has to be more to the story here - GPA?

I work in a top group at a lower BB and there are a lot of non-targets on my team. Not to mention I helped with the 2023 SA interviews and I was honestly a bit taken aback at how many non-target candidates HR pushed through for us to interview. All smart and driven candidates, it's just very different from 5-6 years ago.

I'd also add that MM banks have tons of non-target folks. WF , RBC , BNP , BMO , etc.

Your best bet is the corporate banking -> lev fin route. What was once pretty rare, seems fairly common these days.

Good luck, but definitely fix your attitude and outlook. There are so many better jobs out there than IB but I'm well aware that this one pays the most with the least amount of schooling at a young age (vs doctors, lawyers, etc.)

I already commented but think to yourself if you really want IB I went to a non target and my gpa was shit. I also come from a very poor background and my mentality was that I have to make this happen because I was done being poor and living in the hood with my parents ( imnt diversity either) that allowed me to grind, I failed so many interviews got so many rejections but finally I was able to get a BB SA and get that return. If you really want something so bad you will find ways to

make it happen. It might not happen immediately but it will eventually happen… all about how you approach things.

Some of these comments are just......I get why as an industry we are stereotyped as sociopathic douchebags. As to real advice for OP, I have a few thoughts:

First, be a little kinder to yourself. This world is hard enough as is without having your worst enemy living inside your head.

Second, we're talking about a job. It's not going to determine the relationships you have with family, friends, and partners, determine your or self worth. It's nothing more than something we have to do so that eventually we won't have to do anything. Manage your expectations and understand that we are the only species that has built a system that requires us to do labor and pay to exist. Fuck work, don't let it consume your every waking moment, regardless the job you end up doing.

Finally, if you are really determined to get into banking, the first move is to get a job. Accounting, corporate finance , consulting, whatever. Do it for 3-5 years, and do it better than anyone else you work with. Find a mentor, build relationships, do some volunteering, and continue to follow markets and prepping for banking. then, at 26 or 27, apply to the best MBA programs that you can and enter the banking world as (hopefully competent and not utterly useless) MBA Associate.

You may find with a few years perspective that you were a little in your own head about this, or you may take that chip on your shoulder and leverage into being the smartest, hardest working, most competent banker to ever hit the desk, it's totally up to you. Either way you go, via con dios and best of luck.

How Non-Target are we talking? University of Wyoming or Bowling Green University?

There are definitely going to be people who won't make it. But if we go by the odds on any difficult task, then no one should do anything aspirational. No one should start companies and the Googles and Amazons of the world shouldn't exist. Going by the odds is a defeatist mindset. The odds don't capture perseverance, creativity, intelligence, and finesse. You are trying to break into an industry where there are tons of precedents of people with a similar profile as yours. Knock it off with your BS . You need to do some introspection. If you've sent 3000 emails and have not gotten an offer, you need to figure out what you did wrong. You probably don't want to hear it but you probably sound desperate and unlikeable, so fix that. Another thing you failed to mention is your GPA. A 3.5 GPA is the lowest you can generally have if you are a target student and you should have a 3.7+ if you want to be competitive as a nontarget. Not that this will completely prevent you from recruiting but it will make things much harder if you don't have a 3.7+.

Lastly, people do make the move into banking as experienced hires all the time. It's not over for you if you don't make it from undergrad.

hey-dm me your resume

OP - if you have run any sales process (selling a car or something smaller like a 2nd hand video game console), you quickly realize desperate sellers always underperform. I have seen many processes where the seller gives away too much to accommodate random requests from large buyers who are not even that interested which led to nowhere.

In any job applications, you are fundamentally trying to sell yourself to a firm. If you reek of desperation it makes people uncomfortable and people are much less likely to give you good reviews post interview if they were uncomfortable. If you want to break in you need to adjust this attitude and start telling yourself that you are too good for GS /MS/EVR/CVP and it is their loss not hiring you. Understand this might not be the reassurance / comfort you are looking for here, but if you were to go on any future job search (with any company, banking or else) - this attitude will only hold you back.

I've been where you are and I remember feeling like I wanted to die when final rounds at a MM shop went poorly (I actually got the offer). I also remember feeling like the success stories were annoying cause they just highlighted that I couldn't do it.

If you really want it then keep at it. I went big 4, then MM and now I'm at an EB .

Good luck and if you're feeling unsafe consider getting help (I have a therapist now).

Hey man. I feel your frustrations, have been in the same boat before. Went to a non-target that no one's heard of that's and never sent anyone to IB . Literally sent 1300+ cold emails and was taking the bus several hours into NYC just to grab 15 min coffee chats with folks before ultimately getting my IB summer analyst stint. Also had a low GPA and plenty of people I reached out to told me it was a losing battle. At some points, you start wondering if you're crazy or just stupid so I totally get it.

Feel free to PM me, would be happy to share any insights / inspiration that might help.

Sometimes in life you just fail and it never gets better, there no end of movie wrap up where you get the job and everyone goes happy ever after.

Hey man, sorry that you've been having a tough battle with recruiting. Please, don't think of committing suicide, it's not worth it, and you'll be harming those around you, and you won't be able to see the badass I have a strong feeling you will become. I understand you're passionate about this industry/breaking in, but please realize there's much more to life.

If EB / BB / MMs aren't working out for you, have you tried reaching out to regional boutiques? No matter how non-target you are, I'm sure you have alumni at smaller shops that would love to get on the phone w/ you. I know people who didn't start recruiting for IB until senior year and ended up with offers at boutiques. They may not be prestigious/have the Best Buy-side exit opps but we all start somewhere, and you can ALWAYS pivot elsewhere. I've seen people pivot to a top MM and BB after doing some time at a boutique.

As cliche as it may sound - keep your head up and keep at it! I believe in you, brother. Stay safe

I'm sorry to hear this. If you don't mind me asking, around what ranking is the college you're attending? I am a non-target student myself trying to break in

Been in your shoes and can def relate. FYI, I go to a target school but still struggle with recruiting because I didn't join the pipeline clubs when I was a freshman. I got numerous rejections for SA and ended up doing a non-IB summer internship . Nevertheless, I did not give up. I decided I would try recruiting one last time and eventually landed an EB offer.

If you need more feedback/mocks, spend some money on mentors that can help you (like WSO mentors) or other IB prep programs. Best of luck, you can do it.

I commend your effort. Given a longer time-horizon, a lot of this work will pay off, you just can't see the light yet cause you're in the middle of the forest. Couple points:

1. It really depends on what kind of non-target you're at. Lot of schools get lumped into non-target. Does your school have like any brand recognition at all? For instance, UPenn is definitely a target. Temple would be considered a non-target by most people on this website, however, Temple is a large state-school with brand recognition. A handful of their top kids will place in finance. Alvernia University is some random college in PA that I've never heard of and just looked up (sorry if you go there, it might be nice, who knows), I doubt anyone from there makes it to Wall Street, this would still be a non-target tho. At some non-targets, you have a shot, at some you have no chance, important to figure out this part of the equation. To quote meek mill, "there are levels to this shit."

2. You need to develop some perspective, or at least listen to someone that's on the other side of it all. We all tie a lot of our self-worth and image into our jobs and placements, but it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. It's not something anyone expects you to understand know, but as you get older you will understand. After being in IB myself for a bit, I've realized how most people don't care what I do, especially the people I care about the most. Looking into my future, I definitely plan on leaving the industry soon so I can spend more time with friends and family. I still want to work hard and be successful, but there are other ways to do that. IB has some of the most skewed perceptions of working hard. An average week in this job would make you look like a workaholic in most other industries.

3. Broaden your time horizon (this is a little pet theory of mine). On an infinite time horizon anything is possible. If you really want to do IB , you can achieve it given a long enough time horizon. The opportunities are there, it just might not be out of college. A lot of my friends at targets and semi-targets still had to contingency plan in terms of not making it into IB , and plenty had to go down that path. There are ways to make it to IB without an MBA , but an MBA is also another great path to get there. You don't even have to be in M7 or whatever. I don't have the best knowledge in this space, but just through running into people in the industry, plenty of MBA associates come from non-M7 programs, still has to be a decent program id imagine.

4. If you legitimately have had really bad thoughts during this process, best to try and get some help. Whether that be therapy or whatever treatment a therapist would recommend. And have an open-mind, you'd be surprised the number of people in the Corp world that have gone to therapy and taken the recommended steps to get better (I'd imagine half of nyc 18-35yrs old are on prozac)

5. Try and enjoy life by doing things that you actually enjoy. We were all in your shoes before (different levels of such) where we had so much of our dreams and aspirations tied up into getting into IB , but it really is fools gold. Only once you obtain it will you realize how insignificant it is in the grand scheme of things. This is like a maturity and wisdom part of life, and I'm just rounding the corner in terms of having a better perspective.

6. Most level-headed and nice people on this forum understand where you're coming from, don't listen to surface-level comments. Maybe you need to change your attitude, but more than likely if you can from a really shit school, it's just gonna be a much longer journey.

Cheers

Deleted, take care of yourself mate

I agree that "never give up" isn't good advice for everyone, as candidly, maybe you're just not cut out for what you're aiming for… but also use your brain… "never give up" doesn't mean doing exactly the same thing again and again with the expectation of a different result. Find an alternative path.

I couldn't get into IB / AM after uni… grades were mediocre, university wasn't a target, no relevant work experience. Instead of repeatedly bashing my head against the wall, I took a corporate development job in a tier 2 city (less competition) at a smallish company (by headcount, not value) and developed much of the same experience I'd have gotten at an IB .

Moved into sell side ER focusing on the same industry I'd been in previously, again at a tier 2 city.

These roles added a lot of credibility to my CV and I then moved abroad to one of (the?) top firms in the industry, in their M&A and PF team.

Leveraged that experience to get a position sitting on the other side of the table. (Don't want to explain what I mean by other side of the table in detail as it will give too much away, but the meaning is broadly clear hopefully.) I'm now sitting in a Director position, +300k after tax, working less than 9-5. I hire advisors for all the heavy lifting.

My advice to you is to give up or adjust your approach given it's evidently not working. The "never give up" advice is for people who can find a way to make things happen rather than leave themselves to the mercy of the HR machine.

Consider tech - you said you study a STEM degree. The tech industry is waaaaaay more meritocratic and your non-target background will not hold you back anywhere near as much even when applying to FAANG. The work life balance is better, the pay is competitive (its actually better than finance on an hourly basis), the work is generally more stimulating, etc. Roles include software engineer, data scientist, data engineer, data analyst. Just take a look.

Going to a non-target sucks, but no need for self harm. You would only be hurting your parents, siblings and other close relations.

There are many paths to banking, not just an easy summer junior internship to a ft offer with a relaxed senior year.

You can always get into some crappy tier 3 bank in a crappy tier 3 city and lateral. You can get into a good bank but in some crappy group like ops or credit and lateral.

You could work in consulting or the treasury team at a company and lateral.

And if all that fails, you can always try for an early mba and re-recruit.

My point is that there are many paths to getting into banking. There are many good reasons to hurt yourself, but not getting directly into banking from college is not a good reason.

I have worked under many people in banking, and most of them went to way crappier schools than me. Your college only helps you get your first job, and after that it doesn't matter at all dude.

The only thing my college pedigree got my was my first job and the chance to break in. That's it. The only people who ever cared about my college degrees after that were my parents and a few girls I dated. The real world doesn't care.

So remember, you can always lateral using the examples I gave above and an mba in a few years can be your ultimate back up plan.

Understand the frustration. Coming from a non-target myself with low GPA due to personal circumstances. Wasn't socially very good when I was younger.

These days getting into banking as a non-target guy is very tough, in my bank majority of new hires are women / minorities

I did numerous internships, started with internships that were not IB to begin with, took me a long time of working almost free to get my first FT role.

Assuming you're from the US (or even EU) this is what I would recommend as you're dead set on IB - Conscious it is a long journey:

1. Apply for whatever internship there is available in a non IB role (can be FMCG, fintechs, etc) this will help you build up a story of whatever industry group you will join.

2. If you are not graduating soon, then try again to apply the year after for IB and now you have an experience you can talk about, and have a reason as to "why this industry group" compared to your peers

3. If you already graduated and didn't get into IB , well I hope you did well in the internship to get a FT role there - would work 2/3 years there and get a top tier MBA

Understand this is not the ideal path and most likely the last advice you wanted to hear but if I could go back I would have done this myself.

Hey, I'm an A2 at a mid tier BB from a mid Atlantic non target. My first time recruiting was pretty shot: I had one superday and blew it lmao. What I ended up doing was turning my minor at the time into a second major so I could technically extend graduation and get another shot on goal. Going through the process a second time was seamless and I ended up securing an offer. If you don't succeed at first, and have the means to do so, consider trying again.

This would make sense if becoming an IB analyst was a final destination.  But it's only a first step to some longer-term accomplishment.  So it actually doesn't make sense to talk about it in terms of "hope is lost" etc.  Think of life as a series of entry ramps, you miss the first one and you try and catch the next one.

If your post is 100% serious and you have the utmost competence in all valuations methodologies, etc. mentioned in OP, DM me. Expect to have to back all your statements

Tone, ability to market oneself, and quality of communication (both written and verbal) are all things you need to explore. As an older person at the later stages of a long career, I can tell you with absolute certainty that being the top technician is not that important. Putting all your time in learning many of the things they would teach you is a waste of your time. They don't expect you to know much more than the very basics. You can learnt he three financial statements in a weekend if you're sharp and motivated. So, you don't have to be the best, just good enough. However, you do have to be likeable, well spoken, interesting, and possess strong writing and communication skills.

What you kids need to learn is the technical side is totally table stakes. A monkey can learn that and it is not all that impressive. Think of it this way, the vast majority of you leave every yr or two yrs so they have to replace your "skill" with a newbie constantly. Therefore that skill couldn't be that burdensome or they would never be able to replace with scale. What they ARE looking for is future leaders. People they can envision in front of clients, bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars of fees. That's their business and the only they they care about. Fees. Plain and simple. If you're not the kind that they want to sit down and grab coffee with, have a cool dinner at a high end restaurant with, spend the afternoon at a ballgame with, etc., then they have no use for you.

Look in the mirror. Who are you. I suggest you be brutally honest with yourself and see where you need to improve in the people skills area. 3000 emails with no interviews means you don't know how to close (including moving a conversation along or generating interest with an email). This is a very important skill to learn in business. Any business.

There is more to finance or the corporate world than IB /S&T or high finance. Okay, you studied hard but why did you put all your eggs in one basket even when you were getting constantly rejected? Did it never occur to you that you should start applying to anything else given all your rejections? (B4 Consulting, ops, corp fin, etc) Did you have any experience in finance when you were applying, even BO /MO, corporate finance, accounting, anything? Or was it just courses, projects and extracurriculars which tbh, anyone could BS?

I was at a nontarget too. But I knew high finance was a long shot so I didn't limit myself to just that. I worked in back office roles like fund accounting, tech startups, operations at a bank, data analysis anything I could get my hands on that was remotely interesting to me. I grinded and did my best work every opportunity I got and learned a lot. I still tried for high finance, but that's not all I focused on because I was realistic with myself. I knew that the only way to set myself apart was to have experience (compared to the target kids) and talk myself up whenever I got my foot in the door. And I am thankful I did that because eventually I landed in high finance. Sometimes breadth of experience beats relevance.

Pick yourself up and rethink your strategy. You tried your way and it failed so you need to adjust. It sucks that these target kids like your friend who are clueless beat you everytime but the world won't morph to fit you into it. You are more than your career don't forget that. Don't let these toxic fuckers on here make you feel less than because you didn't get a stupid internship. These fuckers go to the best institutions in the world and strive to be middle management at a bank or fund which I find absolutely pathetic that that is all they strive for. They crowdsource their self-esteem from the prestige of a company they have no equity in. Don't fall into that trap and feed into their prestige circle jerk. Apply for every opportunity you are remotely interested and try to find a winter or spring internship somewhere leverage that into an offer at said place or somewhere else. If you study a quantitative major, don't sleep on tech as this target school shit matters less and it is much more of a meritocracy.

Just putting this out there. I am from a non-target (and when I say non-target, I mean not even a state school), and while I certainly can't argue with your personal experience, I do think your premise is off-base. Breaking in from a non-target is certainly harder, and requires more legwork and effort, but is by no means impossible. I work at an EB (one that people on this forum regularly reference as a top-performing shop), and can tell you that the analyst class we brought in last year is ~25% non-target.

My point in posting this is to tell you that it certainly is possible, and if you are really committed to this line of work, there are still paths that get you here. Maybe you end up taking a job in corporate banking and then lateraling over later or maybe you change your outreach strategy to include smaller shops (if you haven't already). Also, please keep in mind that there are many career paths out there, and that defining your life based on your career most often leads to severe disappointment.

It's not bullshit - Ask yourself this OP.

Do you truly believe you put in 100% effort into recruiting and succeeding in breaking in and still land with absolutely nothing? Meaning that do you believe that you reasonably worked at 100% capacity to get a job and not one of the hundreds of banks with thousands of positions offered you a spot? If your answer is yes, that's fine man maybe IB isn't for you. There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in this world and if you're not able to break in, NBD.

But the answer is more likely no - and if that's the case then the issue is with you.

Sorry for being blunt but I came from a non-target of nontargets and we placed 4 kids in IB and 1 in MF PE last year out of ~40,000. And all 4 of those kids who placed IB are some of my best friends. We grinded together and all broke in. Almost everyone I ever hopped on a call with didn't really know what school I went to and even then, I was able to land referrals and interviews. The hardest part was securing the call and to do that, you got to be persistent and organized, but after that happens it's light work if you have decent social skills and know your technicals.

From what I've gathered, if your technicals are as advanced as you say they are, then the problem lies in your ability to make conversation. I did research on the people I was talking to - Looked at their social media, LinkedIn, the location they were based in, etc. And from there I would sort of direct conversations like that. For example, I was networking with a guy whose alma matter was Miami University and I directed the convo towards that and then spent time asking questions about the city, nightlife, university, etc. It's not that hard to do - people love to talk about themselves and if you have a conversation with them where they like you, they'll push you forward

This shit isn't physics or computer science - I don't know why so many people struggle with it unless they just don't ever talk to people outside their close circle. Most people are friendly and if you show interest, they'll reciprocate. That doesn't mean fake it - there's plenty of conversations I had where I didn't vibe with the person and you just move on from it. Don't dwell and keep moving forward.

I post once in a blue moon but the self-pity is suffocating. And I normally wouldn't even care for the self-pity if you didn't call the entire process and advice that people give on this forum "bullshit". I was once a college kid and I spent plenty of time frequenting this forum and it's that very advice that you're shitting on that helped me land a phenomenal job.

Have some accountability OP and hey - maybe I'm being way too harsh on you. If you truly did put your 100% and weren't able to break in, then sorry man. But don't come on here dashing the hopes of other people because it didn't work out for you.

Cheers

Just have to be better

Absolute geed. Heard the Louisiana Pension fund is looking for talent.

Go to a good grad school.

One of our interns just dropped out of our fall internship that started this week. They got connections to a lot of places if you work hard a semester. While I don't think it's appropriate how you have complained on this forum, I understand that you may have been dealt a bad hand and need an in. Ping me if you are interested and we can hop on a call.

Trust the process man. You haven't failed yet. I broke in from a non target and will agree it's harder to get interviews. That said, I can name 15+ kids who were able to start full time in IB in the last few years. It's a lot less than target schools, but we all followed the same strategy so it must work right? Your only disadvantage is the difficulty to get an interview. After that it's up to you to execute and seal the deal. I would suggest mock interviews before you do any more full time recruiting. And create a new email address to hit up all your contacts who didn't respond with a fresh outreach email. Your email might have been complete garbage so check that with your peers. Make sure you're getting advice from people who will be honest with you about your performance. Better to get slightly negative feedback from an older mentor who's been in your shoes than "yeah man that's great" from a peer in your grade.I'm writing this in an uber so apologies the formatting is probably off

You make good points OP. There's a mentality here that anyone can make it if they just work hard enough, but the truth is that the majority won't make it, statistically. And it's not about hard work, but mostly luck

As someone here who got into the industry from a non-target, I'll say this to you:

- I messed up in high school too big time (and a big part of my college time) so you're not alone on that

- If you have actually sent 3000 emails with no success at this point, look inward and ask yourself if there's a reason you haven't been able to close with those who you talked to. A lot of the advice I give to the people I speak to who reach out now is to improve their actual speech and diction so it sounds like it belongs and isn't rough around the edges (this is a superficial industry and this kind of thing matters)

- Stop contacting recruiters - your best bets are with actual front-office folks such as the bankers or S&T professionals: they are the ones who will plug you into the HR process

- Bit of cliché advice here but don't get down on your luck. Continue to emulate positivity in the face of all your rejection because I promise something will eventually bite

It's not about your inability to connect with others. Coming from a extreme non-target like OP, breaking into banking is always going to be a uphill battle for non-targets. I have get on calls with tons of guys even after having BB name on my resume and people at MM literally just told me that they wouldn't be able to vouch for me because they're not from my school or ask me to do a MBA to break in. The only chance you get to break into IB is if you're a diversity, I was the few lucky one to break into corporate banking and lateral into IB . Either way, life is a uphill battle if you don't have connections or money.

That's why if someone send me a linkedin email and can hold a conversation properly, I will always try to push their resume along if they follow up with me when recruiting starts. It's also amazing how some people send me an email straight to my work email that's a fucking essay and then send invite request on linkedin telling me to connect. Just ranting about the lack of basic social skills among a lot of people.

All I'll say is keep you chin up and keep working. It is extremely difficult to get in from a non target and what a lot of people fail to realize is that luck plays an important role. It is frustrating but remember this: You just need to get your foot it through the door. May be you don't get into T1 banks but keep that does not mean there are not other shops. you fail there go for the smaller ones. I know of people who went to target schools and failed to get into good places. However, they joined a T2/T3 bank and worked their way up from there.

Given that you are from a non target your path is not going to be straight forward. Trust me I know the hypocrisy involved in target vs non target. But you fucked up before in life and now you need to work harder than any one else. Your path to where you want to go is circular. Its complete BS where the stamp matters more than what you know but welcome to the real world.

If you keep trying you will land somewhere. May not be the ideal place but you will land somewhere. And then you need to work hard to get to where you want to be. Now it might look like a big task. But in 10 years time if you are willing to work hard I do not think it will matter that much.

All the best mate.

Hold that 👍🏾

Things don't happen for no reason

Here's an idea, how about you stop feeling sorry for yourself and get the hell back out there. I think you're aiming to high out of the gate nobody is going to care about you especially at BB just aim for local MM firms and work your way up from there. Additionally, it sounds to me like you're not networking enough with these firms because a incoming senior should have no problem getting a internship at a boutique during the busy season especially one with much self study as yourself.

• someone from a non-target

I flunked out of college and broke in lol. DM me, I'll see if I can help.

Hshsjdkdksj

I'm also from a non-target, (University of Rhode Island - which has 75% acceptance rate). I majored in supply chain and had a minor in Econ. Graduated with a 3.1 GPA, only boost was that I played football there. As you can already tell that resume with NO relevant internships isn't screaming IB .. So I ended up doing sales for two years, passed the CAIA , then went back to get my MBA concentrated in finance (4.0 during MBA , graduated with 3.97), got two internships one at a very respected PE firm, and at a VERY small IB shop. Also, I also have ZERO family connections to the finance world other than the networking I have done for myself - and from your post you've done more already than I ever have. Post MBA I worked in Corp Dev for a little under 2 years. Now I'm at the smaller MM IB shop and I love it. I get to work on a ton of interesting deals with a lot of responsibilities. Moral of the story is you're still young, and just because you don't have a secured offer before leaving school does not mean you can never break in… lighten up, you will be fine.

Going to be honest with you here, you're in your non-target situation, and no amount of wishing you weren't is going to get you out of it, you have to deal with the crappy cards you are dealt.

Was a non target myself. Virtually no people from my undergrad are in banking unless they pursued an MBA first. Our college career fair literally consists of one regional bank.

Without having an internship with any major firm, just a regional bank, the same one regional bank that visits our school laughably, my senior year I landed three super day interviews with BBs which were all for full-time roles via networking like hell to land them. I went 1/3 in my interviews but all that matters is I'm now at a top 3 BB in a non-IB front office role.

Going to sound like a broken record here, but if you want this you can get it. I think the best thing to do now is seriously introspect regarding what you want out of an employer, and what you can do to bring value to that specific firm and division. It sounds like your difficulties have been with being recognized, do you know why that is? Maybe try for other front office roles instead of S&T and IB like AM or PB? For me again it was all about finding individuals on LinkedIn with non-target backgrounds that I could interview and ultimately try and secure a reference from.

I am telling you my story as I was in a similar spot to you and got three interviews all at top 3 banks and landed one of them. Being in the city and meeting the individuals who had it demonstrably easier by going to any target school you could think of, by virtue of you having to work 10x harder then them to have the same opportunity, you'll likely be better and more prepared than them day 1. The effort pays off.

I promise you if you take a step back and seriously evaluate what you are doing wrong, you'll get bites and then all you need is one to say yes. You can pm me if you like.

as someone who has been in your shoes, I'll recommend a few options 1.) MSF- if your GPA is solid (3.5+ which it should be, or stop complaining) go attend a Top 5 MSF program for a year. I recommend going to either Vanderbilt or UT Austin if you can get in. This will open a lot of doors for you, and from what I've seen is 100% worth the 1 year opportunity cost2.) Valuation- It seems like you have a solid understanding of valuation, so I don't think getting a valuation gig should be that hard for you (the interviews are a cake walk compared to IB interviews , I had offers from 3 of the B4 + HL /AM). To be honest, it does not even need to be at a B4 in order to have amazing lateral opportunities to front office IB . I have honestly seen this work countless times for non target grads.3.) Accounting- Again, if you have a solid GPA (3.5+) I would recommend applying to some top Macc programs. If you are able to break into a T10 public accounting firm, you should be able to lateral over to IB within 1-3 years, higher side if in audit or tax, lower side if you are able to break into m&a FDD4.) fuck it, law school

Sucks to suck dude. Get over yourself and work hard to not be a chump anymore. No one wants to hear how you messed up in high school.

There are a lot of different roles in finance than IB . Consulting, wealth management, asset management ..etc. tech sales you can make a killing in. Life is full of trial and errors. I'm in corporate banking and that's a really fun job with a good WLB. You can always leverage that into IB or a lot of different things. Don't put these jobs on a pedestal. Not everyone who does IB is happy and a lot of people had much easier entries coming from great schools. MBA is always an option so don't get so down on yourself. Most things are possible and will work out as long as you keep an open mind.

as someone who broke in nearly 4 years later than everyone else, its truly possible. you just need to have a good head on your shoulders, which seems to be the crux of the issue here. IB is not the end all to be all. use whatever experience you get in the interim to supplement your knowledge for when you do break in, so you can zig when others zag.

Did you even try landing an internship first at IB small boutique or lower middle market ? If you really grinded and knew your technical, there is no way you couldn't land an internship at those places. If you were just strictly focused on prestige firms, then yes, nobody will take you seriously if you don't have something like I mentioned above in your resume.

Hey man I went to a non target as well and was able to break into a BB do I've been in your shoes. That's an absurd amount of work you've done. PM me a link to your resume I'll take a look, willing to help out.

I have one fundamental question for the OP, putting emotional baggage aside.

Not breaking in - who's "fault" is it? The answer to this question should help you find your north star.

Totally agree with you. For every second, I regret not going to UCLA for my bachelor's, and instead went to a non-target school. I feel like I am also punished for going to a non-target school instead of a semi-target school, like UCLA.

Don't give up man! I too went to a non-target with almost 0 presence on the street, have a severe stutter (speech impediment), and just got a return offer from this summers internship at a BB . Man… i went through plenty of rejections but I knew my shit and showed my perseverance.

Anything is possible - keep at it!

Non-target student here that just broke in heading into my senior year. I can sympathize with how you are feeling. I interned at a PE firm this past summer, which made me more attractive for FT IB analyst positions. Had to fight tooth and nail to get my ft analyst role, and it was solely through networking with anyone I could. None of my online applications ever received a response. It may be a different route than you plan or take longer than you wish, but a door will open for you!

The problem is not the prestige of your university or the lack of connections you have. The problem is yourself. The fact that after such a grueling process you have chosen to ascribe blame to your perceived "less than" education rather than looking inward and doing some self-reflection and fine-tuning your approach tells me all I need to know. This board, the internet, and the real world are beyond replete with examples and anecdotes upon examples and anecdotes of scrappy kids from underprivileged backgrounds breaking through to land jobs previously inaccessible to the lower castes. I can almost guarantee that you would never hear those kids - the success stories - ever once blame their inherent disadvantages as reasons why they aren't "more than" - aka more successful, more prestigious, more whatever the fuck.

And that would be what separates a person like you from the successful cohort. The fact that your undergraduate degree comes from an institution from which bulge bracket banks do not actively recruit has very little to do with your inability to procure a front office finance position. But you seem content to pack it up and feel psychologically comforted by this delusion. Which is fine, I guess, but it smacks of that 40 year old divorcee at your hometown bar who will tell anyone who asks how "if only I had gone Ivy League, I'd be a director at Goldman right now." But guess what, no one fucking cares.

You mentioned you're going into your senior year. Jesus Christ you have your whole life ahead of you. I understand the temptation of cynicism at that age is strong, but by God is it detrimental to a long term goal of a happy life and successful career. There's a quote out there about how holding grudges is like drinking poison and hoping your enemy dies. That is essentially what you're doing with this mindset. If you managed to put your emotions to the side and assess your situation logically you would see that your current modus operandi is entirely unproductive, self-serving, and frankly masturbatory.

if you've sent 3000 emails and have yet to mine any actionable insights or leads, you must be coming across like a fucking clown in these emails. I mean my lord, did you ever stop to consider that possibility?

I've already written more than I should l, but just for some context: I graduated from a non-target in every sense of the phrase. Not a single graduate from my Alma mater that I'm aware of has ever held a front office position (IB/ AM / VC / PE /S&T/consulting) at any organization of national repute. Before me, that is. And as many emails as you sent, I probably sent more. I had countless doors slammed in my face. Countless "I'd love to help you, you seem like you have your head on straight but we don't hire from your school." But each of those interactions was immeasurably invaluable to my process in that they provided a harsh but fair assessment of my weaknesses and allowed me to craft my story in a way that would eventually become palatable to a prospective employer.
Let me ask you something: you bemoan the inferiority of the institution you've chosen to attend - that much is clear. But what have you done to elevate your school to the level of worthiness/legitimacy you so desperately desire? I founded the investment club at my non-target and spent a lot of my free time courting donors to provide seed money for a fund because the stewards of the endowment were reluctant to support us. I drafted a constitution outlining asset allocation policies and a repeatable fundamental research process that was simple to learn and easy to adopt for undergraduate finance students - with guidance from faculty, of course. Have you ever even thought about anything like that? Because that's an example of something that made "stodgy" prestige-focused old-guard finance folks' ears perk up.

If it sounds like I'm being harsh, well I am. Because at a certain point I felt the same exact way you did. Life was unfair, I was smarter than my situation, and I deserved and was entitled to more. It's an intoxicating mentality. It was only when I broke myself of those comforting delusions that I actually managed to attain the goals for which I strived.

Grad school can be the great equalizer don't give up if it is your dream.

Take any finance job with a big name. Bust your ass for 3/4 years and build a complete profile.

Get into a top MBA program and do exactly what you have been doing the last 3 years and you will have every option available to you.

I would add be willing to do unpaid internships in the financial services space to expand your network.

I'm in S&T. Graduated undergrad from a Non Target. If you've done this much and still have gotten nothing back from anywhere you've applied, I highly suggest you go to a Semi-Target to Target grad school.

Just having a recognizable school name alone on your resume does wonders. Worked for me and I believe it can have similar success for you as well.