Am I fucked for an internship?
Hello, I hope all is well with you. I am a sophomore at a non-target school with a double major in finance and economics . I have a poor gpa (high 2's) because of freshman year family complications where I wasn't focused on school due to traveling home so much and being worried about family members. I got a 3.5 last semester in harder classes then freshman year and am on track for a 3.7 this semester. I am scared I won't make it past any screeners while applying for a S&T internship for junior year summer. I have a pretty strong resume besides the GPA with an internship last year on a physical commodity trading desk and also being actively involved in 3 different undergraduate run investment funds, I know every school has these, but I am in one that is partnered with the best universities in the world from Harvard to LSE as well as the largest undergraduate fund in the nation. I know markets well as I have been actively trading for the past 5 years in a personal account, but I know the professional world is a whole different ballgame. I have been networking a lot, mostly with alumni because my cold emails hit rate is extremely low. Any suggestions on next steps to improve my chances for an internship junior year, or am I screwed because of low gpa. Any comment helps, and I greatly appreciate your time!
Comments ( 20 )
Sorry to say this, but I think you are screwed, especially just sending in cold applications. With that GPA, you aren't going to get past the HR screening to even be considered for an interview. To find something, you will need a referral to get in. Keep emailing alumni, ask for referrals from your professors and stop saying but we are partnered with XYZ or whatever. Its fucking meaningless and frankly its annoying. You aren't special because Harvard partnered with you, it just means that you go to a school with enough money for them to pay attention. Go back to the shop you interned at and see if they have openings or can refer you. Also, why are you not going back there? Be prepared with a good answer to that cause someone will ask you and if you don't answer well, its going to be assumed you didn't do well and your poor GPA is a reflection of your competence and has nothing to do with outside events.
I hope your family issues are resolved for the better and good luck with your search.
Thank you for your time and consideration of my comment, it is greatly appreciated. I am returning this summer, but I am just aiming to secure something stronger for Junior year that could possibly open more doors. I know my GPA is a killer, besides retaking certain classes and performing better to increase my GPA, do you have any suggestions on next steps. The alumni and some connections they passed me too are the only true referrals I have right now, and they are helping me at certain banks and shops, but I am really trying to do everything possible to increase my chances. Any advice, even harsh is greatly appreciated. Best wishes!
So for summer 2023 you are going back to the physical commodity shop but you are looking for something for summer 2024? Why? Do you not like the commodity business? Is it not prestigious enough? Are they not paying you enough? Consider these questions and any others of the same ilk. Its also really early for summer 2024 internships so you have a lot of time to think about your direction.
If you don't like the commodity business, then yeah look around for other options and expand beyond banking cause who says that is going to be any different. Make a list of what you like and don't like about the job and look for roles that fit with what you want to do. If the place you are working at has exposure to many commodities, ask to spend time in another one to see more of the business and decide whats right for you.
As for what can you do to find these other roles, it sounds like you have made good progress so just keep doing what you are doing. If you think your hit rate on cold emails is too low, ask people that you actually connected with if there is anything you should change in your initial approach. But the hit rate is going to be low, think of how much junk email you receive and never look at. If you really want to get into trading, perhaps keep a public blog, go on twitter and connect with other people trading their own account, something like that. There's definitely connections to be made and jobs to be had doing stuff like that.
And since you invited me to be harsh, here you go. There are no hard undergrad finance and economics courses. Assuming your family issue is resolved and you can focus on school 100%, you should have a 4.0 in your major classes, no excuses.
Thank you so much for your comment, I greatly appreciate your time. This has been by far the most helpful advice I have ever seen on WSO . Yes, I am beginning to worry about my future recruiting for 24'. I love markets overall, especially the trading side with a focus on commodities or derivatives. So, this shop isn't a problem for me, the major concern is the trading segment is under a regulated utilities company so the outlook for the trading shop is uncertain. I also don't know what the exit ops would be if I spend 2 years there because it is not a traditional shop. I know I probably sound privileged worrying about lateralling when I have a horrible GPA. I don't mean to sound privileged by talking about exit ops if I get a full-time offer. I am a very forward-looking person who likes to prepare and plan for the future. This is an incredibly competitive industry and being from a non-target is hard enough let alone a shit GPA too. Thank you for your suggestions of a clear list of roles, and they do have other commodities so that could be a great educational experience too. I will keep grinding in school and am going to retake a couple classes that are killing my gpa, I am just worried it's too late. I will make that account/blog too as I always have current market or trade ideas. I am trying to do anything that can improve my chances, even in the slightest. I appreciate the harshness too; the truth is always helpful. Do you believe it is too late because recruiting starts soon? Should I try and network at prop shops or MM not bulge? (Because I am not passing a screener) Once again thank you so much for your comment, I really do appreciate your time and knowledge. I hope you know how much this advice really does help. Best Wishes!
The fact you even have an internship with that shop from a non target with w bad GPA is an accomplishment. Just kill it there and look to lateral later on.
Thank you I appreciate your comment and will definitely take it into consideration. Best wishes!
I always try to comment on these posts even though I know I am an exception. I can tell by your responses you are looking for genuine advice and are not looking to upset anyone or come off as privileged or pompous, etc.
I ended up graduating with a poor GPA and even though I always cite family issues (had 3 pass away leaving me with only my mother) the fact of the matter is, it was at the end of my senior year and I only bring that up in interviews because I know it's a way out. In reality, I hated my courses, hated what I was doing, and had no care in the world to finish up a major in soft sciences. I, like you, was able to get an internship in a trading related role my junior year of university, and was able to leverage that + some other aspects of my application to get past the resume/GPA screener.
I did most of this through networking, some solid cover letters, and reaching out to recruiters with a solid story. If you're actually interested and have the skills to be a quant trader, you will know once you get past the resume screen it's one of the most meritocratic interview processes out there - just go do well on 3-4 OA's and some technical interviews until you get a final round where you do the same exact stuff quizzed on prob/stat/math/etc. and then get an offer.
I also know I was incredibly fortunate that the things I had as extracurriculars were highly valued in the quant/trading industry. Anything showing competitive excellence/drive/ambition I think is highly valuable. It can be as obvious as competitive programming/math but I ended up with the opportunity to speak to some of these people I think because I had placed in collegiate powerlifting while also being in the top 0.01% of 2 different games, CS:GO and Starcraft. (IMC/SIG I think sponsor a bunch of gaming tournaments funnily enough).
In my cover letter I talked about my GPA and literally just said yeah I had some bad stuff happen, but no excuses, I just wasn't interested in my major and it wasn't until this last year I became interested in trading, I think I have the quant skills etc. bla bla bla pls pass me on to the interview process and I'll prove it. Something along those lines. If you were the sole caretaker for a family member going through cancer, or were physically busy traveling back and forth daily to care for whoever, then full sympathy to you and that's completely understandable as to why your coursework may have suffered.
TLDR: Networking and a solid story hopefully can get you past the resume screening process and I advise focusing on being the candidate with a unique story rather than trying to pitch how you're "actively involved with 3 different undergrad funds that Harvard and LSE partner with". Bonus points if you're the kind of person these firms are looking for anyways: The best and brightest in whatever you're passionate about. ( Citadel has some sort of quote or whatever, but I think the idea is they'll give a first round to literally anyone who's proven they're one of the best at what they do, whatever it is).
Thank you I really appreciate your time and help. I also appreciate you acknowledging me asking for genuine advice and not being cocky or privileged. I am incredibly sorry for your losses; I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been. Sending prayers and best wishes. I am incredibly fortunate that both family members recovered and are trending up, but it taught me to never take a moment for granted. I was traveling home a couple times a month, but luckily it was only a 3.5-4-hour drive home. It definitely took a toll on me mentally and physically; do you think this would be something to explain in an interview or cover letter? Do you have any specific advice for a strong cover letter? If not, you covered a lot in this, which is extremely helpful. Do you have any advice on the best ways to prep for the interviews? I have just been using free pdfs on technical questions from online. Thank you for specific advice on extracurriculars, those are definitely some cool unique ones you achieved. I will definitely begin to fully articulate my story as a person, not just build my resume. Thank you so much for all your advice and time it is incredibly helpful, and I will make sure to bake it in as I continue to strive to grow myself as a person, student, and future employee. Have a great week, best wishes!
Yours screwed for a sophomore year internship at an IB for an S&T role. However, you are in a position for a junior-year S&T internship. Applications are right around the corner. Apply to all the banks: GS , JPM , MS, CITI , DB , WF , RBC , etc. These applications can be very time-consuming, so just like college applications, apply for a reach program and programs where you'll be accepted.
If you're looking for an internship this summer, I recommend applying to proprietary trading firms such as DRW, Peak6, Flow Traders (market making), etc. They are still recruiting. The interview process is much different, however.
If you cannot land anything your sophomore year summer that's also fine. Just focus your energy on next summer now. Then this summer, spend your time doing something fun, learning a new skill, and/or starting a summer-long project. You only have 3 summers in college, I personally think it would be a waste if all you did was work notoriously difficult internships.
Thank you so much for your response and time. Do you have any suggestions on making it past screeners at the IB's, I don't know how much time I will have to get my gpa before then. I have already begun applying to some of the roles that have opened at banks like CITI, but I know my GPA might get my resume shot down. Should I cast a wide net by networking everywhere and seeing who I can get on the phone with, and apply to every bank and Prop Shop? My university has a decently strong alumni presence in the industry, but obviously nothing like Carnegie or MIT. How does the prop trading firms interview process differ? I have a basic knowledge of it but definitely not as much as IB S&T. Thank you for all your answers, they are truly helpful. Have a great rest of your week.
You can search for the interview process for prop trading. Just don't put your gpa on your resume. Some banks will ask for GPA and some will not. GS asks for GPA so if your going to shoot for there you would need to have networked.
Network your ass off and have a story. My first internship came from my uncle, he had an in at a company that managed his power and gas procurement at the plant he managed. I was hesitant to even reach out to him because I was like "he doesn't know anyone in energy.. yada yada dumb bullshit." Never discount who will know someone.
As far as having a story, I went to a liberal arts college, and changed major halfway through school. I hated the general education courses I was forced to take and I had to take religious courses which I was absolutely not interested in, my GPA reflected that. However, I changed my major to what my school called "mathematical economics" it was a 180, and my GPA then reflected that. Something similar to this is your best bet. Happy to provide more if you need man. Best of luck.
Thank you so much for your time and advice. I greatly appreciate your expertise and experience. I will continue to network as much as possible, I really try to hit hard on my alumni because I know the chances of a response are a lot higher. Do you have tips for networking that you found most beneficial? Thank you for your example of your story and helping me to build mine. I greatly appreciate your time, have a great week!
lemme guess, you either go to university of dayton or university of colorado and you are a member of GPS. I personally think that club is shit here at my target school and I plan on placing better than all of the kids within it in my year. But I wish you the best of luck figuring out where you are going.
You should try to pursue a MiM, Mfin or MFA at LBS , LSE , Imperial, or Oxbridge . These are 9-12 month programs, can get in with a weaker GPA if you score high on the GMAT.
Again, this is an option if you have the finances for it. They are great at sending kids into IB & S&T. I think LBS has like a 90%+ placement rate.
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