Guys,
This is a serious and sincere plea to any of you undergraduate kids who're using these silly titles on their LinkedIn profiles. Please for god's sake, take this out. It just looks stupid and wannabe-ish. I don't know who started doing this and where, but it's just annoying to see. We get that you've received an
IBD
internship. We get that you're going to fancy shmancy investment bank. We also get that you worked really hard to get it and now you want to show it off to the world. But please... DON'T do this.
When Should You Update Your LinkedIn Title?
For all you wannabes who don't agree with me, think about the number of times you've come across someone's profile on LinkedIn who has an "Incoming Private Equity Associate at Carlyle/Blackstone/Blah Blah [insert PE fund here]" or an "Incoming Research Analyst at Viking/Lone Pine/Blah blah [insert HF] here". Never, right? Not once? Because its stupid and immature. Its ok if your internship or full time role starts in 6 months. Just fucking wait for it and you can happily update away on Day 1 of your dream job .
But What About Recruiters?
....And finally, for anyone who pulls up the "I'm doing this for recruiters" argument, calm your tits. It can wait. You can start networking with headhunters the day you enter your IB gigs.
Please be mature about this. I beg you.
- JD
Mod Note (Andy): Best of 2016, this post ranks #7 for the past year
Recommended Reading
Want more advice about how to use LinkedIn professionally? Check out these WSO posts.
Comments ( 220 )
Also, I have gotten emails from undergraduate students with the signature saying "Incoming Summer Analyst"... in your email signature?? Really??
But they're usually the people who include their school/major/minor/certificate/whatever-anyone-who-didn't-go-to-your-school-wouldn't-know and also their leadership roles in campus clubs on their signature. Some people just need validation in that form.
In those situations, I give kids the benefit of the doubt -- they're young and probably excited to show others what they've accomplished thus far. I did once receive an email with a legal disclaimer (the ones that go "CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: this email including any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity...") from a college junior. Who was writing from their university email. Where they manually and consciously put that signature in. For every email in our correspondence. That was just bizarre.
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I think the writer has a valid point and should redirect the poor kids somewhere else. Maybe they should keep that for Facebook, Twitter or something
lol I was just thinking about this: gives such a try-hard, amateurish impression
Cool story bro, care more.
I'm sure there are far more important things you can spend your time on
... I do not understand the monkey shits!? This is on point.
Agreed!
Why do you care? With all due respect, you're not a recruiter nor have you fully considered the situation. I personally have no experience with getting early recruiter traction but know a few people who have because they listed they were incoming analysts. The fact is that LinkedIn is a networking and branding tool. To be doing anything less than maximizing its utility is foolish. Getting a passive leg up on your competition is always good.
Also, who in their right mind would list incomming PE /research analyst while they are employed by another firm? Apples to oranges comparison.
However, I agree with the comment that putting silly titles in your email sig is too much. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
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If life--and perception--were merely a calculus equation to be balanced/maximized, you'd be right.
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I agree!
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Sounds like you're right with them with that Wharton display pic. Nice job.
Pretty sure he's the guy that lists his title as "Private Equity - VP" but is still in undergrad. Wouldn't put any stock into anything he says.
The problem for me is what it says to your company: that you're already looking for the exits before you even start working there.
After all, isn't the main point of this to impress recruiters?
People MS 'ing OP = college kids who use these silly titles
Spot on.
I've never really cared about this, nor anybody else should. However, just for amusement purposes, I've actually seen people with "Incoming Spring Week Analyst" titles. "Springs Weeks" is a UK phenomenon, so for those of you who don't know it's basically when you spend 2-10 days at a bank shadowing people, going to presentations etc. during spring time of first year university.
Lol, I've seen ppl put in their one week summer at Harvard on their education too
Equally annoying: people use "MBA" as a designation who did their MBA at Southwest Dakota State University.
It's still an MBA . If you did your undergrad degree at a non-Ivy, would you say you don't have a degree?
I never said it's not an MBA . My point is: don't use MBA as a designation. "John Smith, MBA" makes no sense.
Hey man, Don't talk shit about Southwest Dakota State University. It's on the target list; I heard it's a main feeder for some top megafunds ...
Sorry about that.
Maybe they worked hard for it. Maybe that's their biggest accomplishment. You don't get to shame them for education.
It's just a way for college kids to boast about their accomplishments. You'd be surprised by how many posts I see on Facebook starting with: "I'm so happy to announce that I will be interning at..." People simply want recognition and social media provides an outlet for them to get it. Those who don't do such things are usually annoyed by those who do.
who cares? nobody
See my WSO Blog
Nothing wrong with using it on your linkedin, thats what linkedin is for...
Everything wrong with using it as an email signature
I can see why it upsets you but let the people enjoy their achievements. It gets funny when, like mentioned above, people put Incoming Spring Week Intern etc on LinkedIn. Or when they use the title for incoming SA in December.
It does reek a bit of insecurity and validation seeking. It's just follow the herd mentality. I also find it a bit strange that people feel the need to put "MBA" or " CFA " after their name. IMO if you're currently attending college and not doing an summer internship , just write "Student at _____ College"
The reason why you don't see "Incoming Associate at _____" is because they're still employed somewhere else whereas many never put school as their title as they believe it should always be something employment based.
From perusing LinkedIn, it's pretty individual dependent (those who put the CFA letters after their name if they're a charterholder and those who don't). Some just put it as one line on a resume. Of course, outside of finance nobody is going to know what "Joe Blow, CFA " or "Joe Blow, CAIA " is going to mean. On a side note, I had a teacher in HS who earned a PhD from nowhere important in nothing special and got pissed whenever a student would call him "mister" instead of "doctor." I thought he was just a stuck up douche.
CFA , CPA , CFP , etc. are designations earned. I think they belong after a name. I do agree with you about MBAs , though. That should not follow a name.
One thing that annoys me is when college students put "President & CEO at (some $50 business they created)"
Or they're part of the school's investment club and their title is " Portfolio Manager at (name of mickey mouse school fund)"
It's just cringeworthy.
Just makes it nice an easy to filter people out who were not good enough to get an actual job / internship.
I did an entrepreneurial thing early in college (yet didn't view it as a long-term thing), and the only fear I had about it was that employers for next the summer might think I did it because I wasn't good enough to get a "real" internship and had to resort to doing that instead. Never bothered calling myself "CEO" or some "head honcho" equivalent though.
For VC's (those who recruit SA's or entry-level analysts) it might be okay, but for those wanting to do IB I'd probably limit something like that to freshman summer, if at all. Somewhat unfortunately, if you don't follow the cookie-cutter path starting no later than sophomore summer they'll just think whatever you did is weird and irrelevant. Naturally the most successful SA candidates at BB 's and EB's have already had IB experience.
"Mickey Mouse School Fund" haha even though you're hating, that was funny
Why does this bother you so much? Its really not that deep
Right?
It could be worse. I've seen "Incoming IBD summer analyst at JPM ", and in the description of the job "Offers from Lazard , DB and Citi "
lol this takes the cake
That's not bad, that's just boss.
Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays
Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
If you look hard enough you will find "Received superdays at BAML , CS , Evercore ". It's almost like you're living in some alternate dimension like the Matrix.
Do these people not understand that it's obvious that you'll take the best offer that you get?
>Hire a bunch of wannabes and showoffs >Complain about the fact they are wannabes and showoffs
Something is wrong in the IBD culture.
Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.
Hit the nail on the head here
I can see both sides of the issue. When I first got my offer, I was really proud but resisted the douche temptation. Then people started asking what I would be doing after graduation, and I felt this would just be a good cover. I didn't want people in my network to think I was unable to score anything....
I got an email from HR a few weeks ago telling me to update my title as future analyst, or whatever. So really, it seems like most banks are advocating for people to do it. Not just some point of pride or one-upmanship.
Highly doubt HR actually told you to do this lol
I mean they actually did, so thanks. It would be pretty lame to be making that up. LOL, right?
This is my situation. I'm graduating in 2 weeks and signed for a job back in October. I don't want to be a try-hard and put anything in my title, but I also don't want my network to think I couldn't land anything. Someone else made the point that later in life, you don't put "incoming associate at ____" because you currently have a job. People do it in college because they don't have a job yet. I think that's spot on.
It's really classless and you will already have a bad rep at the shop you're going to if anyone there sees it. I know it's super exciting, but not worth it.
I think it's fine as an undergrad. What's sad is the 25/26 year old "aspiring investment banker" or "motivated self starter" as their job titles.
"Incoming Summer Analyst at Bank X" people never get return offers at my bank.
Are you saying that because the people who do this have unlikeable personalities or because the title itself is frowned upon?
Both. It looks absolutely silly when students write this on LinkedIn, and 99% of the time, these are the kids who brag to everyone that they are in IB and look down on those who are not.
Wow this thread really took off. Its amazing to see people on here think its ok to have one of these titles. Anyway, to each his own. Go ahead and use those titles, no one can stop you from doing so. But no one can stop me from telling you its silly. Be hungry, but be mature and humble about it. If for any reason, an offer does gets rescinded, then you can end up looking like an idiot. May not happen today due to frothy markets but it certainly did during the crisis - its happened to enough of us on this forum. My point to these kids is I don't think it attracts the right kind of attention/validation you're seeing. There's just limited upside to this maneuver and unlimited downside.
For the guy who thought I did this because had a "buyside exit opp", I'm way beyond that bro, I'm not 22. The point there was to really convey I've worked for a few years at different types of firms and I haven't seen this be appreciated anywhere.
I believe you are missing the "buyside exit opp" point. His point is that since you are far removed from being an undergrad and feeling the success of securing an offer you are excited.
It isn't something I would ever point on my linkedin, but I also see where they are coming from.
I absolutely want to give credit to everyone whose secured these internships /offers. They've busted their ass to get these, networked like crazy, studied hard for interviews and all that good stuff. I don't want to confuse my post to be a rant about the fact that "you kids are celebrating your offer way too much". Of course they should celebrate. But I think its not the best move to put it on LinkedIn, just appears silly.
Anyway, for all those who disagree, go ahead and wear it proudly. Not trying to pick a fight here. Was just making a recommendation based on experience but what do I know.
It is more of a update than bragging rights - at least that's why they tell us to do it, believe me I felt douchey putting it up but all my fancy networking friends told me it's the move.
LinkedIn isn't for bragging, it is to stay in touch. The reason I did that once was because: it isn't as if I would email every contact I have and let them know what is going on.
Also you'd be surprised how many headhunters look for that title and reach out to you alarmingly early.
If a "incoming" post on LInkedIn is the most annoying thing you have seen all day, you must be having a pretty good day.
I never understand the way these threads evolve. A bunch of Certified Users tell you that putting "incoming" and then your future job title as your header in LinkedIn is douchy and downright stupid, and then a bunch of college kids proceed to argue.
This. This. This.
Why do people argue with people who are much, much, closer to the mindset of those making offer/ding decisions?
hahah completely agree. With these kind of things, if you're doing something that can even be perceived as douchy or stupid, it's too risky to do it. Adding the "incoming" certainly offers no benefit.
Incoming summer party analyst here. Should I include photos of sailboat to my CV for prestige points?
Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays
Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
No. People will assume you have too much time on your hands (i.e. you'll make a terrible FT analyst). I would watermark your resume with Redbull cans. Make the Monster logo the background of your LinkedIn profile to switch things up.
Definitely, just make sure you're in the pic with it in your polo shirt, loafers, and short shorts.
Aren't there any superstitous folks out there? Kind of like when a pitcher is in the midst of pitching a no-hitter and everybody does not dare to mention it. Just my thoughts on this.
Glad some rationality returned to this forum, thanks to those who backed me up here, jeez when these college kids learn..
So true. Why is there so much MS ?? I still don't understand why some people do this... I'm an analyst, so I'm not far removed from college days, but I still cringe when I see the "incoming" title. However, it's become so prevalent some people think it's the norm.
Deals / experience matter when it comes to buyside opps, so getting early recruiter traction isn't a good reason to list. In fact, if early recruiter traction is what you want, be proactive and contact the recruiter after you started. And yes, if you want to brand yourself on LinkedIn, feel free to put the "incoming" title up... just keep in mind you may be branding yourself as a tool. IMHO, maximizing the utility of LinkedIn ≠ "incoming" title.
My two cents: If you haven't experienced it, don't list it under your experience... on LinkedIn, resume, etc.
To be honest, I currently have this on my LinkedIn profile. I start in a couple months and I have used the title to connect/network with some people at the bank who would have other wise not have gotten back to me. People don't really care what you say in a message on linkedIn, they just go straight to your profile and look at your qualifications. (We all do it, just admit it) Having something on my profile that says "Hey, I will actually be working with you for the next two years, maybe I'm worth the time to speak to" helps a lot. I agree with you that 'Incoming Summer Analyst' and 'Incoming IBD Analyst for 2020' are a pretty ridiculous, but sometimes they can honestly help get your name in the door at some places. Just my thoughts.
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I love how people are saying it is a way to "update your status" on linkedin, bro you can wait till you actually start and put the summer analyst title on linkedin then. It is cringeworthy as OP says and it is a way for douchey insecures to social media brag. Social media bragging is an obsession that has corrupted my generation like a bad infection, I can't stand it. I do not have an instagram, I do not have a twitter, I do not snap-chat, I am the only one I know in my age range (22-28) that doesn't do these things. I am a generally private person and these platforms are mostly used for dick-measuring... I am confident in the size of my dick and don't need to compare.
p.s. who the hell decides these "best responses"? Half of them are just awful, how does a "best response" have more MS than Silver bananas?
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I think it's decided by the number of SBs and doesn't take into account MS ...
Watch out, this guy doesn't have a Instagram, twitter or snapchat. You're the opposite end of the spectrum that prides themselves on not having social media.
dan_yo23 the fact you think your network is judging you for potentially not having an offer while you are still in school says it all. You aren't that special. The people you added on linked-in are not that worried about some student potentially having an offer. They also do not care that you're an "incoming" anything. Once you get on the job use the title, that is it.
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Preach.
Kids will be kids, man. It's not unusual for people to be insecure or care about the positive judgments of others in their youth. I know I did and still do to some degree. At 21/22, most are still practically babies. For those who are not, feel blessed that you can do things that you enjoy without worrying about what other people want for/from you. Isn't that what it's all about?
Thanks for your rant.
I'm an incoming analyst, have it on my LinkedIn, and two recruiters have reached out to me so far this year.
And when you grow your big boy pants you will realize that it means absolutely nothing you smug pos.
For a college student it's exciting when you get your first internship or first full-time job so it is what it is.
This is a non-issue. No one I've spoken to (all experienced bankers in LDN) gives a damn about whether you put incoming analyst or not.
In fact, my friends that HAVE put it are getting attention from recruiters.
You're a fucking student, shut the fuck up. It doesn't fucking matter who you've spoken with.
I used to think some of you were trolls, then I realized trolls couldn't act as dumb the way you guys come onto Certified posted threads like this and think what you do is somehow better.
Stop defending what you do. Bottom line, your shit stinks, and a college student like you should stop fanning it. While you're at it, don't forget to ask for that BJ from the shit-tier recruiter that just reached out to you. Yeah, that dude, and the other 25 people in the same firm.
A few posters have referred to being contacted by recruiters on LinkedIn.
I hope they realise that the "recruiters" who cold connect via LinkedIn are the bottom feeders in the industry. The type who aggregate as many resumes as they can and fire them out to every job opportunity, hoping something will hit a target.
(In case you think this is a good thing - it is not a good thing at all. It is, in fact, a bad and dangerous thing. Pro-tip - always take care which recruiters you give your resume to and be very explicit, in writing, that no copy should be provided to anyone else without your explicit, written permission. Even then, don't trust recruiters. Perhaps we can start a thread some day about how many recruiters can and will fuck you over as they chase their commissions and how good recruiters are rare and valuable and don't cold contact via LinkedIn.)
Having a recruiter "reach out" to you via LinkedIn due to your incoming title is no badge of honour.
Treating it like a positive is a badge of naïvete.
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In my view, the main dangers are:
Your resume gets heavily shopped to every opportunity, regardless of whether you're a good fit or not. The risk then is that HR departments/other screeners get used to seeing your resume, it gets tired and you get vetted out of roles that you could have been a good fit for.
Your resume gets heavily shopped, word gets around and eventually gets back to your employers, particularly when you may not be seriously looking to move. The person shopping your resume is a recruiter under pressure to builder a network, make budget and desperate to make his/her commission. They'll be happy (consciously or subconsciously) to shop your resume to look like they have quality product in their portfolio, build their network. They'll happily gamble that an employer may like the look of your resume and you may just be interested in that opportunity. They can come back to you and spin it like they found the opportunity first and are bringing it to you.
I'm sure there are others. It comes down to the incentives in this situation. You're putting yourself at the mercy of a broker who is incentivised to sell you ASAP.
Some good brokers will realise that they make the best commissions by selling quality and will be selective in how they shop you.
However, when you're an intern (let alone an "incoming" intern), you are not quality. You are a commodity.
You are a lump of clay with a high opinion of itself which has the potential to be shaped into something decent. Typically, that process takes 2 years at the grad level. That is, we see grads as only breaking even around the 2 year mark, where the value they add exceeds their all-in cost (ie salary, seat, the associated support staff etc).
So any recruiter who is shopping you before you've been in the the job for at 18 - 24 months is not shopping you around the market on a quality proposition basis. They are shopping you as a low quality, commodity product.
Bear in mind that recruiters make commissions based on your salary. So not only are they shopping you as a commodity product, you don't produce much of a price for them.
How do you make revenue off that sort of product? A high volume of transactions, shooting at every target and hoping something hits. So you and the thousands of other "incoming" interns receiving the same pro forma LinkedIn in-mail are just part of a volume strategy.
Why would you want to trust your resume and your reputation to a recruiter with that sort of strategy? How much time do you think a recruiter with that strategy will honestly spend caring about your future when you don't generate much revenue for them?
I'd like to hear from recruiters who "reach out" to interns on LinkedIn but be less than dodgy. It's possible that they are playing a long game and looking to cultivate a relationship that will pay off after a few years.
However, I doubt the great number of recruiters contacting via LinkedIn really have that strategy, particularly when their greeting messages are bland, detail-free pro forma messages.
All of this. Any time I get a connection request from a 3rd party recruiter from somewhere I haven't heard of with like 10,000+ connections, I say thanks but no thanks. I'd say getting contacted on LinkedIn by an internal recruiter from a (reputable) firm would be a good sign, though. But still be cautious.
Ditto for " Name , MBA", " Name , CPA ", " Name , CFA ", and other random designations.
SSits couldn't have said it any better.
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I had never even heard of the concept of "Incoming ____ Position" until I came across it on WSO . It's one of the more ridiculous and embarrassing ideas I've heard so far. I know WSO will supply me with something more ridiculous if I just keep reading.
Agree with what others have said - it's frankly ridiculous. You're still unemployed and still have none of the skills you'll develop as an analyst.
To those of you saying "I know X people have had recruiters reach out to them" - recruiters emailing you means absolutely nothing. When you have a job you'll have 5 of them email you every single day. Also, what is the advantage of a recruiter emailing you because of an "incoming" status? Are you already looking to leave a job you've probably worked really hard to secure?
There's nothing wrong with being excited and proud of securing an internship / full time job - in fact you should be. However, do realise that to most other people it looks a bit stupid.
One day i'm gonna list myself as "Incoming Managing Director _______ , CFA ". Haters gonna hate, lol. On a serious note Linkedin is a giant douchebag brothel and yeah I'm a part of it.
I wonder if WSO has the power to reverse this trend???
Personally, I think it's a bit try hard as well...if the banks are encouraging incoming analysts to do it, then I don't really blame the college kids, but I think there is minimal benefit and more potential harm (kids, take note, if most Certified Users think it looks bad, why would you risk other bankers or your contacts thinking it also looks douchy? Hint: DONT LISTEN TO HR)...
I think once you start and change your status, you will get contacted by plenty of (reputable) recruiters...personally, I wouldn't update my LinkedIn until I was actually working on the job.
The people that are actually close to you (in your network), you should have sent personal thank yous and an update when you landed the internship anyways... so the other people that are "in your network" likely don't care and will have plenty of time to be impressed when you change your title to "Intern at bank "...
This reminds me of some clients we get that over embellish on their cover letters and/or resumes in an attempt to impress. I can tell you that sometimes understating and showing some humility can go much, much further impressing professionals that already work on Wall St.
Either way, I don't think it's a huge deal...just personal preference I guess - I honestly wouldn't mind if I was still in banking. It does give you a little bit of insight into what an intern will be like, right? :-)
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Three quick points:
1.) The point of a summer internship is to get a full time offer 2.) Those Associates and VPs who think "incoming intern" looks stupid (as well as those who are Ok with it) are the people who will be making FT offer decisions. 3.) Its great that you are an incoming SA at Lazard or Blackstone or wherever, but if you have to interview at Citi for a FT job, it's better to have been a summer analyst at Blair and gotten an offer than to have been at Lazard and gotten dinged. So I would not get excited and put it on your resume just yet-- wait until you get the FT offer*.
*: If we have another 2008/2009, force majeur gets declared on the signaling system. IE everyone knew why a Lehman summer intern was interviewing at Accenture .
I think "summer Analyst" is important. Yes for recruiters, but it also says I am FO IBD . Not Operations. Not Valuations. Not some trading support function. I am FO IBD . Those are the only roles I have seen labeled as Summer Analyst, and it is an important distinction, both to recruiters and for potential lateraling after summer.
You probably know better, but at the end of the day, maybe you would be better off if you took a nap. I understand working on the street can kind of make you a little bit crazy about things like this that don't matter or affect you at all.
Not sure why you think only FO IBD uses the term Summer Analyst - plenty of other industries do too. It's the in thing to call interns these days.
The "MBA" after name is the worst. Those people are the most insecure out there.
Thank you other Certified Users for stepping up here and supporting the argument! Phew there's hope
That incoming analyst title/signature is a total JJ Watt move... give it a break
college kids really need to chill out these days...
So back on HR.
Back in the day when analysts had to walk up hill both ways to get to work, and dinosaurs roamed the earth (and would party at the Pink Elephant), HR used to compile these things called facebooks (lower case f) with resumes, photos, email addresses and contact info, and send out email blasts to the interns . This approach promoted internal networking without external bragging.
It's also helpful to remind people that not everyone is getting an offer and there are some hurt feelings about that, so don't be uncouth. I know HR wants to be cheerleaders for the firm, but there are probably some third or fourth order effects that drive away business and talent.
ha, very true...you make me feel VERY old with this post. If you are old, what am I? I feel like we are lecturing the youth of Wall St...maybe we can make a small difference and get a few kids to stop the madness.
good to see you back in the forums :-)
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Patrick, I'm not going to say things were better back in the day, but so much of this bullshit never happened. It was far easier to deal with people before Linkdin and social media became such a de reguire necessity. I mean, seriously, I wonder what kids today would say if they worked 10 years ago without a Linkdin. Hell, I remember when cell phones were actually used as cell phones and you couldn't browse the web on them.
WSO will always have some finger on the pulse. It's our job to stop stupidity from happening where we can.
Slow down fellas, we are running out of Monkey Shit.
Hey hey hey look at me everybody:
I work in tech at a bank, I guess I am part of the BACK OFFICE with no Bentley or Ferrari to my name. But hey I'm a "FRONT OFFICE SOFTWARE DEVELOPER".
For the record you guys are misdirecting your complaints. Kids do that, just like they put their their mickey mouse funds experience because that's what makes them stand out in the competition for the recruiters attention.
When top management will tell HR ''stop hiring tryhards and showoff'' then you won't see kids doing that anymore.
Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.
Yes, but what type of recruiters?
The most similar situation I can think of is where some young 15 year old girl starts developing breasts and discovers social media at the same time. She posts photos displaying her new endowments on the internet, then rushes to tell her friends about 'all these hot guys' who are now 'reaching out' to her. She relishes the attention.
I'm not saying that these young SAs-to-be will wind up internet-dating a 46 year old guy who lives in his parents basement and will later find themselves chained up in his secret, Cheetos-smeared pleasure dungeon and shitting into an old ice cream container. But the naivete underlying this sort of bragging, and the risks in relishing this sort of cheap/no value attention, is not too dissimilar.
As for the view that one needs to let one's network know - if it's your university network, it's just bragging.
If it's your 'network' in the professional world, generally they do not care. Professionals do not check LinkedIn with anything near the regularity that university kids check facebook. I would go on LinkedIn perhaps once every two months to see how many pending contacts I have racked up, unless it's specifically checking the profile of someone I'm doing business with. Like many banks, my bank has neutered the messaging system within LinkedIn, as that's a compliance issue. I don't bother looking at my feed because it is full of self-promoting shittery from a few of the wide range of people I've met professionally and eventually invited or been invited by. Imagine your FB feed dominated solely by the most crap, chemtrails/anti-vaxxer posting contacts, but instead they are linking to "thought pieces" (or worse, something they just read on ZeroHedge) which demonstrates they are fucking idiots.
Not because everyone on LinkedIn is a fucking idiot. But because those who try to use it as a platform for spreading views etc generally are idiots, desperate, narcissists or some combination of the three. Most sensible professionals just use LinkedIn so others can stalk their backgrounds before/after meetings. Most sensible bankers work at sensible banks which have a media/communications policy which clearly says don't publish shit on any platform in your professional persona without multiple internal sign offs.
As someone mentioned above, once you're working, you'll find recruiters "reaching out" to you all the time on LinkedIn. This is not a badge of honour. It's like being proud that you reply e-mailed to some spam and now get hundreds of CHeaP V!agRA e-mails every day (hey, they recognise that I have lots of sex!).
With very few exceptions, recruiters who contact summer analysts (actual or "incoming") are not the sort of recruiters you want to do business with.
If you get all excited and proud of your achievement when you get LinkedIn in-mails from recruiters who have noticed your "incoming" status and are full of flattering comments about how impressive your profile is - congratulations, you're a dumb mark and have fallen for cheap sales tactics. It's the social media equivalent of a cold call from a boiler room.
On the whole "kids these days" grumpy old man theme - I went to university in an era where there was no social media, barely any cellphones, modems ran on 14.4 and 28.8kbps, you had to wait 5 minutes for a porno jpeg to download and only a few people had e-mail addresses. Our only option for bragging was to tell people individually.
That individual, personal contact made the realisation that we were bragging far more obvious.
Coming up with self-deluding justifications for why this bragging was not really bragging was far harder. Self-awareness was generally harder to avoid and narcissism in oneself was easier to identify.
Social media seems to have made it far harder for self-awareness to pierce the narcissism that a lot of social media lives off. People are far more concerned about looking into the mirror to see the image they project to the world than to self-reflect.
FRONT OFFICE SOFTWARE DEVELOPER lol
Isn't that kind of the point of LinkedIn, though? Putting up titles that indicate where the person's going to be working, and in what capacity? Yeah , maybe the "I'm doing this for recruiters" argument isn't entirely true, but LinkedIn is the one social media site that people can really use to show off what they've accomplished professionally, right?
IlliniProgrammer is changing his LinkedIn title to Incoming F50 CEO so he can keep up with the titles of millions of LIONs.
In all honesty, it isn't as bad to put the "incoming ib analyst" tag on linkedin, although, I personally don't support the idea. What i've seen that truly disturbs me is some people putting S&T trader @ Citi or TMT Banker @ GS in their personal social media profile that they use for casual interactions. I feel like Instagram, facebook, twitter, etc are your social media accounts that should not be tied up or reveal your professional status because that's when you cross the line and begin to become obsessive. People who do this look elitist and pretentious. People need to learn that everyone should not admire you for coveting a highly selective position in a competitive, cut throat industry. Be happy with yourself and acknowledge the good work you've done. Seeking validation from someone is for the weak, and it will hold you back in your career.
Are you a sorority girl?
Dear all Certified Users and everyone who is actually working,
As one of the college students, I apologize for my generation's stupidity--especially on behalf of those who believe cold contact from recruiters is a positive sign when all of you have said that they are nothing but empty oases.
Please do not stop from providing insights to those of us who do respect your time on here and take your advice.
Sincerely, a monkey trying to be a human
Do not see the problem that it makes people look elitist- who cares?
The real issue is that it makes you look like a socially awkward dude that doesn't realize how he comes off to other people. Agree with everything else.
Social awkwardness hinders you in terms of career progression and personal relationships. I personally wouldn't want to grab a beer or let alone work on any project with someone whose value was attached to their professional status or pedigree. Having interest and hobbies outside of work are important. There should be more to you than your occupation.
The fact that you took the time to write this post is almost equally annoying.
Why is there so much concern over what an incoming summer analyst does on their free time? I agree that it is a fairly immature but it's really none of my concern or anyone else's.
If an incoming SA put "incoming SA" on their LinkedIn profile, then I'm sure their immaturity will show during the summer. At that point, these kids can be weeded out of the crowd. No need to get all worked up over a kid when you have actual work to do and an actual life to live. On the other hand, if a SA puts "incoming analyst" after securing an offer, then that probably speaks volumes on the type of people that particular bank/group represents.
The bottom line is mind your own business. If you have so much concern over a kid you barely know, you probably don't have much work to do or don't have a life beyond getting worked up a line on someone's LinkedIn profile.
Maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but let me sketch out the potential problem:
First order: kid puts "incoming analyst" on his profile. Second order: his classmates who didn't get offers feel bad; your team gets associated with a douchebag or looks like douchebags in their minds Third order: his classmates later graduate and succeed elsewhere Fourth order: when you are trying to get business from those classmates in five or ten years, or trying to recruit talent, they remember how your team made them feel.
I think you have a point that it's outside of work but Id just point out that it still affects how people perceive your firm and your team to an extent.
Lolz. My Linkedin page has experienced a sudden spike in views since this thread started. Monkeys must be hunting for us "douche bags".
Because of your "incoming SA" title I realized you were really hot shit and want to hire you for $10M+/yr. Currently on the lookout for more "incoming SA's." Fkn studs.
Banking is literally the only industry you see this in. No one puts "incoming med school student" or "incoming mechanical engineer". Congratulations you got an internship, the world doesn't care or need to hear about it
I saw incoming president of xxx club at school. You'll never guess how far will this trend go.
Haha that's remarkable. Bad wording in my comment, I guess you can say you see all kinds of shit but its so over the top
I'm in tech and you do see "incoming software engineer" and stuff like "Ex-Google" (for someone who interned at Google last summer) every now and then. Once you find a profile like that it's usually pretty easy to find similar ones in the recommendations too. It definitely strikes me as a little obnoxious. I don't really see any benefit either.
i saw incoming Xx school grad. just got my summer. about to put that on my LK :p
I put it as my title BC I want my future colleagues to accept my invitations on linkedin easier when I add them for networking purposes before internship starts. Is it that WRONG? People who work in IBD or trading do not have much time to view your request. They will probably just ignore it if your title is student at xxx university.
Why don't you just wait until you start, and meet them in person, like a normal human being.
Was about to say the same thing.
cuz other interns already start to email their managers and alumni who work in the firm...it's kinda of peer pressure I guess? Everyone wants return offer so they have to start reaching out early
Wow... This is a really long thread for something that started out as good advice from Certified Users .
Incoming Analyst is already pretty bad, but incoming SA is just ridiculous and looks toolish. You could easily just mention that you'll be joining so and so bank for full time in your email or message, or that you'll be a summer colleague if you really can't wait that long to connect when you're actually an intern... Though it does look like you're trying to set yourself up for something else before even starting your summer and being focused on landing the offer or getting to know the bank you'll be at.
I1
I could not agree more with this post
I started this as a serious discussion, and its unfortunate to see some of the justifications from undergrads that have it on their profiles. They're so bad, it's ridiculous. Anyway, there's no point ranting on about it further, I've made my point. Once you guys actually join the workforce and have been working a few months, you'll soon realize yourself how silly it was. We can only advise and we mean well, but if you guys don't want to take it, don't, no one's forcing you to.
It was a very good post and it absolutely needed to be said. If it stops even a few naive kids from doing it, then mission accomplished. They don't know it but you might have saved them from being mocked or dinged down the line.
OP, you must in your mid 20s, at least?
BB Banking - PE - HF track? Publically ranting about some insecure college senior's LinkedIn profile?
Speaking of stupid and immature...
OP is just calling it like it is. And him stating his track is simply so younger posters (many of whom are likely targeting BB-->PE--> HF ) are aware that this person is speaking from the perspective of others like him who 1) have been in young monkeys' shoes, and 2) are now sitting on the other side of the table and are the very associates/VPs that are screening young candidates (re: the gatekeepers).
If someone from the industry/sector you eventually want to be in is telling you the shit you're doing is stupid, then it's pretty safe to say that it's valid advice and you should stop doing said shit.
Jeez, thanks dude, glad someone gets it here.
LMFAO @ " Front Office Software Developer "
I take it to another level. If you take a look at my LinkedIn profile you will see: Lieutenant to MD of ER @ BAML
I am disgusted by you treacherous old baby boomers who prey on the youth. I am coming for your chair and I am very hungry. You best defend it with your life instead of wasting precious time (which you don't have much of) in order to criticize the future.
What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.
Let them be...
This thread is funny.
I can see why people would say that updating your LI headline to say "Incoming Analyst at ___" is douchey.
In the tech sector, particularly as a software engineer, it's almost necessary to update the headline. I signed an internship offer in early November of my junior year, and I updated my headline only after quite literally getting several LinkedIn messages a week from various tech recruiters asking to have a phone chat about their company. That's just the way things work in software engineering.
I had no idea this creates such a negative perception in the eyes of Associates/VPs. I made my LinkedIn title Incoming IB SA simply because everyone else at my school does -- I thought it was normal. After reading this though, I changed it to "Student at XX." Thanks for posting this OP, I didn't realize it seemed so douchey. Hopefully no one in my group saw my old title, haha.
In other words: who gives a fuck. Put whatever you want on your linkedin. Kid is proud he got a job, well done. Stop worrying so much about what other people do, and start worrying about how much of a dick you are for pointing such a small thing out.
Commented on this already about how putting 'incoming analyst / SA' etc on LinkedIn is pretty stupid, but seems there's a lot of students talking about how 'recruiters are reaching out to them' or its for 'networking with people in the team they'll be joining'. Let me explain what (at least for me) I think when various forms of connection come in and what recruiters do.
Random student / "incoming intern" adds me on LinkedIn - If you're actually joining my group, I'll probably leave it until you actually join and get to know you. If you're a nice person and good at your job, I'll accept. If not, I probably won't be seeing you again so I'll just leave it. If you're not joining my group or firm, it probably gets declined. I have so many other things going on in my life which in all honesty puts your LinkedIn request to the bottom of my priority pile.
Random student / "incoming intern" emails me - If your email is over-keen and asking for loads of detail, it goes in the 'to do' folder. I will have genuine intentions of getting back to you during my next quiet morning, but inevitably it gets forgotten. You follow up a few times (no more than once a week) and if I'm in a good mood I finally reply with some helpful information. If I'm in a bad mood or didn't like your email, it moves from 'to do' to 'Deleted'.
If you send me a very brief (2-3 sentence) email saying you're interested in learning more about the job or are starting something soon and want to meet for coffee or a beer, I'll reply straightaway. If you're a nice guy and not cringe-worthy keen when I meet you, I'll be happy to answer any further questions you have or help you out. If you seem like a socially-inept try hard, you won't be hearing from me again.
TL;DR - If you actually want to help your case with someone in the industry, be very brief and ask if they're free for a coffee or beer. Offer to pay and graciously accept when they insist. Buy the second round of beers. Recruiters are bottom-feeders and don't care about you and them getting in touch means nothing.
Just FYI, some banks have linkedin groups for summer analysts, and they ask us to update our linkedins so we could get approval to join the group.
I doubt all banks do, the one I'll be joining for the summer certainly did though.
I'd be very, very curious to know which bank does that... Is this BB ? Upper-tier MM? When I did my SA , HR had the complete list of all incoming interns and invited us automatically to the Linkedin group. Btw I agree with everything said above: I cringe every time I see the "incoming SA ," just because it sounds very toolish and insecure. Update that profile when you're a few weeks in on the job.
It's BB . Everyone has their own experiences with their different SA programs depending on their bank and year. Not all BB does it the same way nor do banks never change the way they do things.
We were given links of the linkedin groups and we had to ask to join the groups on the webpage.
I do agree with you that sometimes people are doing it to flex, but this does not necessarily apply to some.
64 SB's says that more senior members lurk here than we all thought.....
This entire thread is ridiculous.
Thanks for the value-add bro! True champion. I'm shocked that you're shocked that people have the time to notice/care.
Just came across "Future Oracle Class of Sales - June 2016" It's out of control
Thank you
I don't totally agree with this post.
I was one of those 'douchey kids' who posted 'incoming analyst at X'. A part of it was, as people talked about, to 'verify status'. At my school, all of the prospective IB kids know each other/judge each other, and nearly everyone posts 'incoming summer analyst at X' when they get the offer - it's just a social construct from that perspective. Also, yes, that does include an incoming analyst at Blackstone .
Also, "I'm doing this for the recruiters" is a valid point. I didn't do it for the recruiters - I did it because 60 other kids from my school were and I wanted to prove that I was good enough to all of them, as vain and silly as that is. But, before I started for the summer, I had 2 PE recruiters - a small (~1bn fund) and a megafund reach out to me via linkedin to set up interviews. That wasn't the intention, and I wouldn't have imagined that could ever work, but, from experience, it did.
Also unexpected - just having the "incoming analyst at 'prestigious bank'" had numerous club promoters reaching out to me via linkedin, offering me spots on the guestlist. Not that any of that is worth that much, but, if putting a silly title online means I get a few good nights out of skipping the line at clubs I wouldnt have even bothered trying to get into otherwise, I say there is some value in that.
A recruiter at BAML told me to put incoming SA at MS in the spring to get an accelerated interview before fall interviews came around. It actually worked.
reminds me of the group of 1 day "internship" participants called Inside the Industry at JPM HK on facebook basically its just an invitation to see what analyst do for a few hours and have a chat with some MD's and these guys made a facebook group named Inside the Industry JP Morgan Hong Kong 2013 LOL and the group was on invitation only hahaha
Let them do it. They earned it.
It's like people who put "CFA Level I Candidate" lol.
Paying for a CFA exam doesn't mean jack, you gotta pass it first.
let's not discuss whether it's silly or smart to put " incoming xxx" on linkedlin. The reality is, you search "incoming investment banking summer analyst " on linkedlin and you see 100+ aspiring investment bankers doing that..............you have to admit it has become a trend, for some reasons...
or you may want to put"incoming xxx" if you want to be featured in an article like "Meet the incoming Goldman Sachs intern with 11 previous internships and 10 job offers" on efinancial career.......
Ahahahaha thank you SB'ed!
It isn't even just IB .. kids in marketing, consulting, and Big 4 accounting do it too. At my school pretty much everyone who has an accepted offer does it, and a quick search on LinkedIn shows at least 500 "incoming SA /intern" titles.
I totally see where you're coming from and pretty much agree, but it might just be a generational thing. I know at my school it's sort of just something people do when they are done with recruiting and we joke about it becoming LinkedIn official. I don't know if everyone is putting that much weight on it or taking it too seriously, but if 90% of your friends have put it on their profile, it just seems like a very normal thing to do.
Congrats guys- let's touch base in a couple years and we'll see how you feel about it. Lol @ generational thing. I'm not 20 yrs out bro, stop trying to justify your actions by unnecessarily making me sound older than i am.
Like venturing down your old wall posts on Facebook...
i put incoming summer analyst on my linkedin. in fact, i also posted a picture of my gs offer on facebook with a link to a
Hey everyone, I have a related question. I thought I'd just post it here. What's your take on posting your GMAT-score (especially if it's high like 750+ range) on your resume or linkedin? I've been checking out quite a few resumes of target grads in top PE associate roles (TPG, apollo, etc...) and quite a few of them post their high scores on linkedin. What do you think about this?
IMO that's fine - it's like posting your SAT score or that you passed CFA . Lots of places will ask for it anyways, particularly if you're being recruited out of a business school with grade non-disclosure.
Sounds like you ONLY think that that line is there to impress but perhaps there are instances where some readers find it helpful because it points to a certain direction that junior is embarking or that the junior already has a firm commitment from somewhere making that statement in fact factual. sounds to me you are picking on your underlings. if your boss boasts something, do you equally call him out without hesitation like: hey, i know you have more money than i do. shush. easy does it.
i think that may do your boss some good.
I agree that it is ridiculous and emblematic of the worst of "The Track" mentality, but I think people need to realize that with corporate recruiting starting earlier and progressing quicker, students might feel like they have to do even these little things or somehow risk losing out. It's all about personal branding nowadays, even for bankers.
Saw a profile for a UK full-time analyst who listed every high school achievement individually (i.e. MUN award, president of a non-profit club), random week-long internships he had in high school, and every Spring Week he was invited to (including ones he didn't attend). His profile was a top 100 viewed for students in the UK.
Gimme the loot
It's all part of the cult of personality. I'd highly recommend Jonathan Knee's The Accidental Investment Banker to everyone.
Well said johndoe89 . Fully agreed here - it looks ridiculous, douchey, and hugely wannabe-ish. I'm in consulting and see this a lot as well; it becomes really obvious to me who are the people who will flame out because the career doesn't give them prestige and rainbows and lollipops.
...
For me it just comes down to the fact that they are taking credit and pounding their chests by putting that on their profile when in reality they have essentially done nothing of value to earn their spot. Congrats for sucking less than your competition during your internship or in FT interviews. Recognize you know very very little and have a steep hill to climb to be successful and have some humility.
Completely agree with most of this post and see how silly it does look. I have wondered though, what about not putting it as your headline but putting it in the experience section?
For example: Headline: Student at ___ University Experience: Incoming Summer Analyst at ____" ...(and NOT doing the "update my network" thing)
Reason I ask is that I have heard multiple people say their response rate has increased significantly when networking within and outside their banks.
This even drives me crazy and I'm in the same stage as all these "M&A Incoming Investment Banking Summer Analysts". Is this a result of the insecurity that social media brings out of people? Seriously, makes me worry for future generations and their mental health.
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